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Help[Facts] A Scottish name Mirrin
Is it a form of Marian? Why are there so many spellings? For instance last year in Scotland, 5 Mirins, 34 Mirrens, 7 Mirrins and 2 Mirrans. I'm ignoring the y versions. Is one more legitimate than the other? Is it normally this popular?
Thanks a lot :)
Thanks a lot :)
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Replies
Lol I was one of the 7 mirrins
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I think of Mirren as the standard - my dentist just named his baby girl Mirren. There's also the football team St Mirren but the saint after whom it's named is often called St Mirin. They are both 'legitimate'. It isn't a form of Marian as far as I know, and the saint was male, although it's a female name now in my experience.
There are a couple of placenames in Scotland with Mirren's name in them, spelt a variety of ways. It's not a question of right and wrong - these things long pre-date standardised spelling.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saint_Mirin
There are a couple of placenames in Scotland with Mirren's name in them, spelt a variety of ways. It's not a question of right and wrong - these things long pre-date standardised spelling.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saint_Mirin
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My guess is that they're forms of Murron, which is the Scottish form of Muireann. Not related to Marian.
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Okay, thanks. I've just read a comment elsewhere that says they are related to Mary or Marian and possibly mean 'little Mary'. I was hoping someone could confirm this.
Thanks though!
Thanks though!
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It used to be a pronunciation issue: a girl would be formally named Marian, or indeed Marion, but in the local dialect her name would sound more like Mirren. In one of John Buchan's Scottish novels this is made very clear. Similarly, Jane (Janey), Jean (Jeannie) or Janet would be pronounced like Jinny or Jinty for everyday use.
St Mirren football club claims to be named after St Mirren or Mirin, but he is a very mysterious and possibly mythical character.
As for it's renewed popularity, could this be a result of modern parents giving their children the (version of ) the name they will call them by, rather than a supposedly correct version that will never be used? Like naming a girl Sally or Megan instead of Sarah or Margaret?
St Mirren football club claims to be named after St Mirren or Mirin, but he is a very mysterious and possibly mythical character.
As for it's renewed popularity, could this be a result of modern parents giving their children the (version of ) the name they will call them by, rather than a supposedly correct version that will never be used? Like naming a girl Sally or Megan instead of Sarah or Margaret?
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what Buchan novel is it? I've never heard of that before. I always assumed it was from Muireann / Murron.
I don't think Scottish parents who use it today would regard it as a form of Marion. There's probably very few places left where the accent would be strong enough for them to sound the same. And it's not being used just by people who would have strong regional accents, the last 2 Mirren BAs I saw were in the Scotsman - the middle class Edinburgh paper.
My theory was that it gained some currency during the Braveheart revival with the release of the film in 1995. Murron/Mirren can sound very similar in a Scottish accent.
I don't think Scottish parents who use it today would regard it as a form of Marion. There's probably very few places left where the accent would be strong enough for them to sound the same. And it's not being used just by people who would have strong regional accents, the last 2 Mirren BAs I saw were in the Scotsman - the middle class Edinburgh paper.
My theory was that it gained some currency during the Braveheart revival with the release of the film in 1995. Murron/Mirren can sound very similar in a Scottish accent.
This message was edited 9/8/2008, 1:51 AM
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Found it!
In Witchwood!
"It's Marion Simpson, her that's wife to Richie Smail, the herd o' the Greenshiel. Marion, puir body, has been ill wi' a wastin' the past twalmonth, and now it seems she's near her release" (Isobel, the minister's housekeeper) .
***
"It's himsel'," she cried. "Richie, it's the minister. Wae's me, sir, but ye're ower late to speed puir Mirren. An hour syne she gaed to her reward--just slipped awa' in a fit o' hoastin'. I've strauchten'd the corp and am gettin' the deid claes ready--Mirren was aye prood o' hers, and keepit them fine and caller wi' gall and rosmry. Come forrit, sir, and tak' a look on her that's gane. There was nae deid-thraws wi' Mirren, and she's lyin' as peacefu' as a bairn. Her face is sair faun in, but I mind when it was the bonniest face in a' Rood water" (The wife of a local shepherd).
In Witchwood!
"It's Marion Simpson, her that's wife to Richie Smail, the herd o' the Greenshiel. Marion, puir body, has been ill wi' a wastin' the past twalmonth, and now it seems she's near her release" (Isobel, the minister's housekeeper) .
***
"It's himsel'," she cried. "Richie, it's the minister. Wae's me, sir, but ye're ower late to speed puir Mirren. An hour syne she gaed to her reward--just slipped awa' in a fit o' hoastin'. I've strauchten'd the corp and am gettin' the deid claes ready--Mirren was aye prood o' hers, and keepit them fine and caller wi' gall and rosmry. Come forrit, sir, and tak' a look on her that's gane. There was nae deid-thraws wi' Mirren, and she's lyin' as peacefu' as a bairn. Her face is sair faun in, but I mind when it was the bonniest face in a' Rood water" (The wife of a local shepherd).
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I wish I could remember! could be the Free Fishers, but it's been a very long time. I'll try to find it, and if I can I'll get back to you.
Of course, there's no absolute guarantee that just because JB said something, it's correct. Though it is highly likely!
Of course, there's no absolute guarantee that just because JB said something, it's correct. Though it is highly likely!
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My Scottish mother-in-law is named Mirren. She was named for her grandmother, who was named Marion but nicknamed Mirren. There is definitely a difference in pronunciation between these two names (I had my husband say them in his brogue) but Mirren may be an antiquated nickname as well as a real name in its own right.
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Lots to go on, thanks everyone ;)
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