New Post
Search
Help[Facts] Greek family names, somewhat confused...
Okay, so at my school there is a Greek brother and sister. The brother is named Vaggeli and the sister is named Evvie. That's how they are registered at the school, and that's what everyone -- including their parents -- call them.
Well, recently it was learned that Vaggeli's real name is Evangelos. Why he would respond to Vaggeli, I have no clue. Does anyone know how "Vaggeli" is possibly a nickname for Evangelos?
Also, Evvie is apparently not the girl's real name. There was a rumour it was Friday for quite some time, and now some are saying it is Evangelos as well! WHAT?
So, basically what I'm trying to ask is three things -- Why Vaggeli if your name is Evangelos, is it possible the siblings have the same name (is it a Greek thing, or something), and is Friday a real Greek name?
Thank you!
emma likes the words:
eclectic
diabolical
persnickety
flabbergasted
hallelujah
Well, recently it was learned that Vaggeli's real name is Evangelos. Why he would respond to Vaggeli, I have no clue. Does anyone know how "Vaggeli" is possibly a nickname for Evangelos?
Also, Evvie is apparently not the girl's real name. There was a rumour it was Friday for quite some time, and now some are saying it is Evangelos as well! WHAT?
So, basically what I'm trying to ask is three things -- Why Vaggeli if your name is Evangelos, is it possible the siblings have the same name (is it a Greek thing, or something), and is Friday a real Greek name?
Thank you!
emma likes the words:
eclectic
diabolical
persnickety
flabbergasted
hallelujah
1
Replies
Edited to add more
Another transliteration of Evangelos is Evaggelos (if you look at the link with the Greek script, you can see why this is). Evaggelos lends itself easily to Vaggeli as a nickname. Evvie can be short for many names in Greek, but Friday in Greek is Paraskeve. :-)
I couldn't see any Greek using Evangelos on a girl. However it is possible (but probably improbable due to the Friday connection) that the siblings could have similar forms of a name. Greeks following the naming tradition name the first son after his paternal grandfather, first daughter after the paternal grandmother, second son after the maternal grandfather, and second daughter after the maternal grandmother. In my experience it is common in Greek families to see cousins with the same names, but I have not seen siblings with two forms of the same name. Greek lends itself to a masculine and a feminine form of tons of names. From what I have observed, most would use one form (m or f) if honoring two people (m & f).
Another transliteration of Evangelos is Evaggelos (if you look at the link with the Greek script, you can see why this is). Evaggelos lends itself easily to Vaggeli as a nickname. Evvie can be short for many names in Greek, but Friday in Greek is Paraskeve. :-)
I couldn't see any Greek using Evangelos on a girl. However it is possible (but probably improbable due to the Friday connection) that the siblings could have similar forms of a name. Greeks following the naming tradition name the first son after his paternal grandfather, first daughter after the paternal grandmother, second son after the maternal grandfather, and second daughter after the maternal grandmother. In my experience it is common in Greek families to see cousins with the same names, but I have not seen siblings with two forms of the same name. Greek lends itself to a masculine and a feminine form of tons of names. From what I have observed, most would use one form (m or f) if honoring two people (m & f).
This message was edited 2/28/2009, 11:31 PM
1
Evangelos and Evaggelos are not two different transliterations (the exact transposition of letters from an alphabet to another one: the transliteration is exact and identic for all the languages and only varies in the transliterative system, if there are several systems for one alphabet, and it is mainly used for scholar works), but one Latinized form (Evangelos) from a Greek one (Evaggelos, in Greek Ευάγγελος), probably attracted by the Latin word evangelium or by some names as Evangeline, in English, or Evangelista, in Spanish (both from the Latin form).
In fact, in Greek, the search with Google for Ευάνγελος, which would be the Greek spelling of Evangelos, offer only 6 results (2 Spanish, 1 Italian, 2 Greek and 1 English about Vangelis) versus 607,000 of Ευάγγελος. And, for example, the one about Vangelis is not correct checking with the informations about him in Wikipedia.
http://www.search.com/reference/Vangelis
"Evangelos Odysseas Papathanassiou (Greek: Ευάνγελος Οδυσσέας Παπαθανασίου IPA: [evˈaɲɟelos oðiˈseas papaθanaˈsiu]) is a Greek composer of electronic, new age and classical music and musical performer, under the artist name Vangelis Papathanassiou (Βανγέλης Παπαθανασίου) or just Vangelis (a diminutive of Evangelos) [IPA: /væŋɛlɪs/ or /vægɛlɪs/]."
But in English Wikipedia:
"Evangelos Odysseas Papathanassiou (born March 29, 1943) (Greek: Ευάγγελος Οδυσσέας Παπαθανασίου IPA: [evˈaɲɟelos oðiˈseas papaθanaˈsiu]), is a Greek composer of electronic, progressive, ambient and neo classical music, under the artist name Vangelis (a diminutive of Evangelos; pronounced /vænˈgɛlɨs/ in English)."
In fact, in Greek, the search with Google for Ευάνγελος, which would be the Greek spelling of Evangelos, offer only 6 results (2 Spanish, 1 Italian, 2 Greek and 1 English about Vangelis) versus 607,000 of Ευάγγελος. And, for example, the one about Vangelis is not correct checking with the informations about him in Wikipedia.
http://www.search.com/reference/Vangelis
"Evangelos Odysseas Papathanassiou (Greek: Ευάνγελος Οδυσσέας Παπαθανασίου IPA: [evˈaɲɟelos oðiˈseas papaθanaˈsiu]) is a Greek composer of electronic, new age and classical music and musical performer, under the artist name Vangelis Papathanassiou (Βανγέλης Παπαθανασίου) or just Vangelis (a diminutive of Evangelos) [IPA: /væŋɛlɪs/ or /vægɛlɪs/]."
But in English Wikipedia:
"Evangelos Odysseas Papathanassiou (born March 29, 1943) (Greek: Ευάγγελος Οδυσσέας Παπαθανασίου IPA: [evˈaɲɟelos oðiˈseas papaθanaˈsiu]), is a Greek composer of electronic, progressive, ambient and neo classical music, under the artist name Vangelis (a diminutive of Evangelos; pronounced /vænˈgɛlɨs/ in English)."
1
A placeholder till the more knowledgeable reply:
In Greek, γγ has long been pronounced ng. I do not know the exact origin of this and, to top it, Greek pronounciation has undergone major changes (stops have become fricatives in non-nasal contexts), and lost much of the dialectical variations, so that modern pronounciation is not a good guide to many phenomenon. But, at least in the gamma-gamma and the gamma-chi contexts, the first gamma is a nasal sound, and in gamma-kappa it is a non-nasal stop, not a fricative. (More understandably, a preceding nasal often merely marks a modern fricative as a stop.)
In any case, at least today, it is an orthographic issue: and Evaggelos is a transliteration which captures the orthography and *not* the pronounciation, Evangelos does the opposite. I do not know where the use of ni-gamma appeared in the few examples on Google: whether they are mistakes or regional orthography.
In Greek, γγ has long been pronounced ng. I do not know the exact origin of this and, to top it, Greek pronounciation has undergone major changes (stops have become fricatives in non-nasal contexts), and lost much of the dialectical variations, so that modern pronounciation is not a good guide to many phenomenon. But, at least in the gamma-gamma and the gamma-chi contexts, the first gamma is a nasal sound, and in gamma-kappa it is a non-nasal stop, not a fricative. (More understandably, a preceding nasal often merely marks a modern fricative as a stop.)
In any case, at least today, it is an orthographic issue: and Evaggelos is a transliteration which captures the orthography and *not* the pronounciation, Evangelos does the opposite. I do not know where the use of ni-gamma appeared in the few examples on Google: whether they are mistakes or regional orthography.
1
The examples on Google with ni-gamma were:
http://www.lgpn.ox.ac.uk/publications/vol3b/vol3b_names/v3bme_u.html
Since this link is from the Lexicon of Greek Personal Names, by Oxford, the 5 occurrences of Evangelos are correct.
http://www.greece.org/hec/hecbylaw_gr.html
In this website, the form appears as name of a person from Greek descent. But since he is from the USA, it is probable that his name is Evangelos and Ευάνγελος is just a transliteration to Greek (more or less like some Irish names Anglicized and later reIrishized having the English form as base).
http://www.parrocchiasantavaleria.it/lettori/incontri/Lettori01.pdf
An Italian webpage about the Bible and the Gospels. But since the word is even spelled ευανγέλοσ, with σ instead of ς, the realiability of the source is very doubtful.
http://es.wikipedia.org/wiki/Evangelizaci%C3%B3n
The Spanish Wikipedia, mirrored in some other websites. (The English version have the spelling with gamma-gamma, even it says "transliterated" when it obviously is not a transliteration but a transcription.)
http://www.lgpn.ox.ac.uk/publications/vol3b/vol3b_names/v3bme_u.html
Since this link is from the Lexicon of Greek Personal Names, by Oxford, the 5 occurrences of Evangelos are correct.
http://www.greece.org/hec/hecbylaw_gr.html
In this website, the form appears as name of a person from Greek descent. But since he is from the USA, it is probable that his name is Evangelos and Ευάνγελος is just a transliteration to Greek (more or less like some Irish names Anglicized and later reIrishized having the English form as base).
http://www.parrocchiasantavaleria.it/lettori/incontri/Lettori01.pdf
An Italian webpage about the Bible and the Gospels. But since the word is even spelled ευανγέλοσ, with σ instead of ς, the realiability of the source is very doubtful.
http://es.wikipedia.org/wiki/Evangelizaci%C3%B3n
The Spanish Wikipedia, mirrored in some other websites. (The English version have the spelling with gamma-gamma, even it says "transliterated" when it obviously is not a transliteration but a transcription.)
1
Nicknames from nonce transliterations are rather odd: for that to happen, I would think the transliteration has to be common enough to be mispronounced regularly. Naturally, anything can happen in a particular family context, but the original poster mentions this as a semiformal name.
Much more likely that the nasalization is pretty labile in this context: would love to hear from our Greek friends.
Much more likely that the nasalization is pretty labile in this context: would love to hear from our Greek friends.
1
Nicknames don`t have to be exactly shortened versions of the name. Have a little leeway. Sally and Bess don`t sound much like Elizabeth and Sarah but they were originally short forms. Harry and Hank are short for Henry too...I could go on. There`s a lot of evolution in nicknames, for example Johan became John which became Hankin which gave Hank, also used for Harry, but which also gave Jankin, in turn Jackin which became Jack. Quite a history. Besides, sometimes parents like a short form but not the "legit" root name. My brother`s name is Roderick but we call him Rory, even though Rory is an independent name and not a derivative of Roderick.
1