New Post
Search
Help[Opinions] The short 'O' sound doesn't exist in (some) American phonology
in reply to a message by Alisha
It's replaced by the backed A sound (like in 'hall'). Consequently, words like "stalk" and "stock", "dawn" and "don" are pronounced identically in most American accents.
This message was edited 2/2/2011, 2:50 PM
Archived Thread - replies disabled
1
Replies
I'm from California, and everyone I know pronounces "stalk" and "stock", "dawn" and "don" the same.
1
Not the same in my accent
In fact, that's a very western sounding thing to me, that "aw" sound. Like California accent. In my accent, stalk and dawn have the same sound (aw), and stock and don have the same sound (ah).
In fact, that's a very western sounding thing to me, that "aw" sound. Like California accent. In my accent, stalk and dawn have the same sound (aw), and stock and don have the same sound (ah).
1
It's referred to as the "cot-caught merger"
I might have been a little generous when I said "most" because it is on a scale, but more than 50% of Americans merge them. From Wikipedia:
"The cot-caught merger (also known as the low back merger) is a phonemic merger, a sound change, that occurs in some varieties of English. The merger occurs in some accents of Scottish English and to some extent in Mid Ulster English but is best known as a phenomenon of many varieties of North American English.
The sound change causes the vowel in caught, talk, and small to be pronounced like the vowel in cot, rock, and doll, so that cot and caught, for example, become homophones, and the two vowels merge into a single phoneme. The change does not affect a vowel followed by /r/, so barn and born remain distinct, and starring and warring do not rhyme.
The presence of the merger and its absence are both found in many different regions of the continent, and in both urban and rural environments.
According to Labov, Ash, and Boberg, the merger does not generally occur in the southern United States (with exceptions), along most of the American side of the Great Lakes region, or in the "Northeast Corridor" extended metropolitan region from Providence, Rhode Island to Baltimore. Areas that it occurs include:
* Canada
* Boston (see Boston accent)
* Northeastern New England
* the Pittsburgh area (see Pittsburghese)
* The Western United States
* Due to an apparent spread of the merger towards the center of the United States (from both the western and eastern states), portions of the Midwest also feature the merger:
o Illinois
o Indiana
o Iowa
o Minnesota
o Missouri
o Ohio"
I might have been a little generous when I said "most" because it is on a scale, but more than 50% of Americans merge them. From Wikipedia:
"The cot-caught merger (also known as the low back merger) is a phonemic merger, a sound change, that occurs in some varieties of English. The merger occurs in some accents of Scottish English and to some extent in Mid Ulster English but is best known as a phenomenon of many varieties of North American English.
The sound change causes the vowel in caught, talk, and small to be pronounced like the vowel in cot, rock, and doll, so that cot and caught, for example, become homophones, and the two vowels merge into a single phoneme. The change does not affect a vowel followed by /r/, so barn and born remain distinct, and starring and warring do not rhyme.
The presence of the merger and its absence are both found in many different regions of the continent, and in both urban and rural environments.
According to Labov, Ash, and Boberg, the merger does not generally occur in the southern United States (with exceptions), along most of the American side of the Great Lakes region, or in the "Northeast Corridor" extended metropolitan region from Providence, Rhode Island to Baltimore. Areas that it occurs include:
* Canada
* Boston (see Boston accent)
* Northeastern New England
* the Pittsburgh area (see Pittsburghese)
* The Western United States
* Due to an apparent spread of the merger towards the center of the United States (from both the western and eastern states), portions of the Midwest also feature the merger:
o Illinois
o Indiana
o Iowa
o Minnesota
o Missouri
o Ohio"
1
I feel way cool and indie now cuz I definitely have the merger but I'm from the south.
1
I don't pronounce "stalk" and "stock" the same, nor do I pronounce "dawn" and "don" the same. I'm from New Jersey. I had a friend in middle school who was from Michigan and had moved to New Jersey, and from what I remember of her accent, I can imagine her pronouncing "stalk" and "stock" the same. Now I will get more specific and state that I'm from northern New Jersey. My sister-in-law is from southern New Jersey, and from what I know of her accent, I think she would pronounce "dawn" and "don" the same. That's a Philly accent that she has, from what I understand. My sisters and I have always made fun of it! Anyway, so I think that this can really vary, but I do realize that you said "most". I find accents fascinating.
1
I live in the NW US, and I pronounce dawn and don, stalk and stock differently. Some Americans pronounce them the same???
1
Yeah, they're the same where I live. I read them differently, but when I say them out loud they're pretty much the same.
1
Yes, it does vary
But a significant majority pronounce them identically or very similarly.
But a significant majority pronounce them identically or very similarly.
1
It depends on the accent
I know that lots of Americans merge those sounds, but some don't. I can hear a very slight distinction between "ah" and a short "O" when I say them, for instance, although it's much more obvious when I put on a fake British accent.
I know that lots of Americans merge those sounds, but some don't. I can hear a very slight distinction between "ah" and a short "O" when I say them, for instance, although it's much more obvious when I put on a fake British accent.
1
That's true
I shouldn't have been so general. But for most Americans, there is little or no difference.
I shouldn't have been so general. But for most Americans, there is little or no difference.
1
I have a bit of a California accent (I lived in L.A. until I was five), and I noticed that California wasn't on your list of places with the cot-caught merger, so I think that explains it in my case. I live in Illinois now, though, so I'll have to pay attention to the people around me and see if they use that merger.
1