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Help[Facts] Re: Help with meanings of Filipino names
in reply to a message by Loads of Randomness
I worked a lot with Filipino names. (I visited the Philippines several times and speak Tagalog.) You could even say I specialized in them; I think my list of them is still the largest one available that's not only a long list of names but gives info where I was able to find something reliable:
http://www.babynames.ch/Info/Language/laTagalog
I can assure you that I was very careful researching those names, every single one.
Rizal: see http://www.babynames.ch/Info/Name/naRizal
Ramil: I have the name, but was not able to find something about it.
Joriz: see http://www.babynames.ch/Info/Name/naJoriz
Chona: have it, found nothing
Chariz: no idea, but really sounds very "Filipino" to my ears...
http://www.babynames.ch/Info/Language/laTagalog
I can assure you that I was very careful researching those names, every single one.
Rizal: see http://www.babynames.ch/Info/Name/naRizal
Ramil: I have the name, but was not able to find something about it.
Joriz: see http://www.babynames.ch/Info/Name/naJoriz
Chona: have it, found nothing
Chariz: no idea, but really sounds very "Filipino" to my ears...
This message was edited 7/18/2016, 9:08 AM
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Replies
Thank you very much! Really appreciate it thanks! Strangely that's were I got a lot of those names!
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I think your problem will be twofold:
1. "The number of individual languages listed for Philippines is 187". Aside from English, Spanish, Basque, Chinese and sign language, most are classed as Austronesian>Malayo-Polynesian>Philippine, but not all. Tagalog may be the basis of Filipino, but it's just one language in the Central Philippine branch among dozens of other branches of the Philippine languages. Then there's Chavacano, "mostly" Spanish, but with Philippine grammar; Eskayan, a mix of Spanish, English and Cebuano. Several langauges belong to other branches of Malayo-Polynesian instead of the Philippine, mostly the Greater Barito group of languages of Borneo and Sulawesi, but one has defied classification beyond Malayo-Polynesian. Good luck identifying which language tradition a name belongs to, essential for knowing what it means. Many may be Philippine adaptations of Spanish names, which in turn could come from various Germanic, Celto-Iberian, Basque, Latin, Berber or Semitic sources. Even in one language, words and names which are distinct in one dialect can be spelled and pronounced exactly the same in another, simply because the accent is different (this includes adding or removing vowels and consonants as well as altering how they're said or written).
2. Without a long trail of documentary evidence (and I mean thousands of years), it can be impossible to link a name with it's original meaning. Names are rapidly disassociated from the prosaic words used to form them, and various processes such as attempts at folk etymology, borrowing, migration and culturalisation (names tend to be retained when people change languages) can quickly obscure an original meaning. Eve a relatively small shift, such as the movement of the Claudian family from the Sabine nation to neighbouring Rome and it's closely related Latin language can completely obliterate the original meaning.
1. "The number of individual languages listed for Philippines is 187". Aside from English, Spanish, Basque, Chinese and sign language, most are classed as Austronesian>Malayo-Polynesian>Philippine, but not all. Tagalog may be the basis of Filipino, but it's just one language in the Central Philippine branch among dozens of other branches of the Philippine languages. Then there's Chavacano, "mostly" Spanish, but with Philippine grammar; Eskayan, a mix of Spanish, English and Cebuano. Several langauges belong to other branches of Malayo-Polynesian instead of the Philippine, mostly the Greater Barito group of languages of Borneo and Sulawesi, but one has defied classification beyond Malayo-Polynesian. Good luck identifying which language tradition a name belongs to, essential for knowing what it means. Many may be Philippine adaptations of Spanish names, which in turn could come from various Germanic, Celto-Iberian, Basque, Latin, Berber or Semitic sources. Even in one language, words and names which are distinct in one dialect can be spelled and pronounced exactly the same in another, simply because the accent is different (this includes adding or removing vowels and consonants as well as altering how they're said or written).
2. Without a long trail of documentary evidence (and I mean thousands of years), it can be impossible to link a name with it's original meaning. Names are rapidly disassociated from the prosaic words used to form them, and various processes such as attempts at folk etymology, borrowing, migration and culturalisation (names tend to be retained when people change languages) can quickly obscure an original meaning. Eve a relatively small shift, such as the movement of the Claudian family from the Sabine nation to neighbouring Rome and it's closely related Latin language can completely obliterate the original meaning.
This message was edited 7/20/2016, 11:37 PM
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Well. You mention some quite interesting (and accurate, as far as I can tell) facts about the multi-faceted language sitation in the Philippines, and about the many ways that names start with a well-defined meaning, but then change and change again over time until it's hard not get dizzy...
But: So what? We can still try, can't we? And see how far we can go, which sometimes indeed is not far, and other times nowhere at all, with names that are a complete mystery.
If you check my list of names that are frequently used in the Philippines (which I list, for the sake of simplicity, under the label "Tagalog"), you will see that many of the really traditional names are written identically to common, everyday Tagalog words.
No *guarantee*, as you correctly argue, that the names really *are* the common words, but come on, what's the probability of a particular name just written the same way, but with a completely different etymology, in a country where many signs point towards a fondness of using everyday words as names in earlier times?
You may strive for near-perfection and near 100% certainties; I confess that I am content with less, to a reasonable degree.
But: So what? We can still try, can't we? And see how far we can go, which sometimes indeed is not far, and other times nowhere at all, with names that are a complete mystery.
If you check my list of names that are frequently used in the Philippines (which I list, for the sake of simplicity, under the label "Tagalog"), you will see that many of the really traditional names are written identically to common, everyday Tagalog words.
No *guarantee*, as you correctly argue, that the names really *are* the common words, but come on, what's the probability of a particular name just written the same way, but with a completely different etymology, in a country where many signs point towards a fondness of using everyday words as names in earlier times?
You may strive for near-perfection and near 100% certainties; I confess that I am content with less, to a reasonable degree.
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Actually, it's a quite good probability, but I'm not criticizing, I'm just saying you have a lot of work ahead of you if you're going to do this seriously. If the Philippine languages are like any other you will find dozens of homophones and homographs, especially when you compare different dialects and languages, with many different meanings and origins, many of which will be equally attractive as names.
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Thank you for your help! I probably should have clarified that I was looking for either commonly used names in the Philippines or Tagalog names and I really only want to verify the names I first mentioned had the correct meanings or find someone who knew their meanings.
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Ok, I see what you mean.
Actually, my own work on the Philippine names wasn't "a lot of work", as you say would be needed, because my possibilities are so limited: I am not a professional linguist that, for example, is able to visit libraries himself and read through works of Spanish people hundreds of years old that report about the Philippines in earlier times to find hints about the meanings of names - which of course would consume endless amounts of time!
What I encountered: Either the probable meaning and/or origin of a Philippine name is rather transparent and can be found out with a few suitable Google searches, or it's already end of the line, at least for me:
Is it a common Tagalog word, with a positive meaning? Ok, probable meaning found. Is it recognizable (and known) as some kind of construct, like Jejomar from (Je)sus, (Jo)seph and (Mar)y? Ok, origin found. Is it probably a play on Spanish names, like Marites from (Mar)ia and (Tes) from Teresa? Check, probable etymology found.
Anything else? No idea :)
There are some nice- and interesting-looking lists of Philippine names on the Internet with many more names than my list. But when you check whether these names are really used in the Philippines (or were used until quite recently), you quickly find out that many are *not*.
I did this check for each name before adding it to my own list, and that did take quite some time.
Actually, my own work on the Philippine names wasn't "a lot of work", as you say would be needed, because my possibilities are so limited: I am not a professional linguist that, for example, is able to visit libraries himself and read through works of Spanish people hundreds of years old that report about the Philippines in earlier times to find hints about the meanings of names - which of course would consume endless amounts of time!
What I encountered: Either the probable meaning and/or origin of a Philippine name is rather transparent and can be found out with a few suitable Google searches, or it's already end of the line, at least for me:
Is it a common Tagalog word, with a positive meaning? Ok, probable meaning found. Is it recognizable (and known) as some kind of construct, like Jejomar from (Je)sus, (Jo)seph and (Mar)y? Ok, origin found. Is it probably a play on Spanish names, like Marites from (Mar)ia and (Tes) from Teresa? Check, probable etymology found.
Anything else? No idea :)
There are some nice- and interesting-looking lists of Philippine names on the Internet with many more names than my list. But when you check whether these names are really used in the Philippines (or were used until quite recently), you quickly find out that many are *not*.
I did this check for each name before adding it to my own list, and that did take quite some time.
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