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Help[Facts] Re: 2597 Italian names...the submitted ones!!
in reply to a message by Felie
If you want to have 100% clarity about this matter, you will have to ask Mike C. about the official policy on Italian given names. Meanwhile, if you are interested in hearing my personal opinion, it is as follows:
Any given name that originated in Italy in any way, was borne by at least one Italian-born person and/or follows the (grammatical) rules of the Italian language is an official given name worthy of submission. It does not matter if a name is only used informally, but I might be biased in that regard, as I come from a culture (Limburgish) where people predominantly go by informal names instead of the ones on their birth certificate. Some of those have never been recorded as official names on birth certificates, but yet they are widespread, so they are definitely worthy of acknowledgement and submission. As such, I am personally inclined to value informal Italian names and treat them with regard rather than dismiss them.
There is also this to consider: informal names might seem insignificant at first glance, but they often offer a certain insight into a culture that official names do not, so they are also important in that respect. That is the thing - you also have to look at the names from a cultural perspective (at least a little bit), rather than solely a linguistic perspective. After all, culture does influence linguistics to some extent, so you cannot entirely separate the two.
With that said, the age of a name or the extent to which it is used also does not matter, in the sense of: a name that is commonly used today is not more Italian than a name that is no longer in use but was commonly used in the past. Both are equally Italian and equally worthy of submission. You just have to specify how common a particular name is and/or in which era it originated or was most commonly used:
• For names that have a huge amount of living bearers of all ages today, the usage should be just: Italian. If a name recently became hugely popular (e.g. there was an explosion of babies with that name), you could adjust it to: Italian (Modern).
• For names that have only a small amount of living bearers of all ages today, the usage should be: Italian (Rare).
• For names that have fallen out of use because the last few bearers died fairly recently (sometime between about 1600 and about now), the usage should be: Italian (Archaic).
• For names that originated in the Middle Ages and for the most part were only used during that era, you can select the usage of: Medieval Italian. Please note: the Middle Ages in Europe lasted from roughly 500 to 1500 and are typically divided into three stages: Early Middle Ages (c. 500-c. 950), High Middle Ages (c. 950-c. 1270) and Late Middle Ages (c. 1270- c. 1500). Here, you also have to take into account when the Italian language first began to develop, which was in the 12th-14th century. Before that, there was no such thing as an Italian language and therefore technically also no Italian names (not as we know them). The names from before the 12th century would have been proper Latin names (except perhaps in Tuscany) and as such are technically Medieval Latin. So, only names from between the years 1100 and 1500 should be classified as Medieval Italian.
Finally, as far as I can tell, Behind the Name (BtN) does not make a distinction between dialects and dominant languages. A language is a language, no matter if it is spoken by only a few thousand people or millions. Each has its unique characteristics and therefore each has an unique influence on names, so they should all be "heard" and receive their time in the spotlight. Besides, if you ask me, the distinction between dialects and dominant languages is often politically motivated, so that the majority (usually people who speak the dominant language) can squash the minority (usually people who speak the minority language) for their benefit. For example: look at how Spain oppressed the Catalan language for decades, even going so far as to forbid Catalan people from giving their children Catalan names. France has done similar things to its minority languages in the past. That is both very wrong and very sad. We are not going to subtly continue those kind of politics by making a distinction between dialects and dominant languages: instead, we welcome each language and treat them and their names as equals. We want to study and preserve as much as possible of each language and their names, and I suppose this is extra important for the minority languages, since they already receive little exposure and support.
All right, I guess that was all. :) Here is some relevant reading material:
- https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Italian_language (stick to the English version if you can, because I am not sure if the Italian version is going to be unbiased)
- https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Middle_Ages
"It is no measure of health to be well-adjusted to a profoundly sick society." ~ Jiddu Krishnamurti (1895-1986)
Any given name that originated in Italy in any way, was borne by at least one Italian-born person and/or follows the (grammatical) rules of the Italian language is an official given name worthy of submission. It does not matter if a name is only used informally, but I might be biased in that regard, as I come from a culture (Limburgish) where people predominantly go by informal names instead of the ones on their birth certificate. Some of those have never been recorded as official names on birth certificates, but yet they are widespread, so they are definitely worthy of acknowledgement and submission. As such, I am personally inclined to value informal Italian names and treat them with regard rather than dismiss them.
There is also this to consider: informal names might seem insignificant at first glance, but they often offer a certain insight into a culture that official names do not, so they are also important in that respect. That is the thing - you also have to look at the names from a cultural perspective (at least a little bit), rather than solely a linguistic perspective. After all, culture does influence linguistics to some extent, so you cannot entirely separate the two.
With that said, the age of a name or the extent to which it is used also does not matter, in the sense of: a name that is commonly used today is not more Italian than a name that is no longer in use but was commonly used in the past. Both are equally Italian and equally worthy of submission. You just have to specify how common a particular name is and/or in which era it originated or was most commonly used:
• For names that have a huge amount of living bearers of all ages today, the usage should be just: Italian. If a name recently became hugely popular (e.g. there was an explosion of babies with that name), you could adjust it to: Italian (Modern).
• For names that have only a small amount of living bearers of all ages today, the usage should be: Italian (Rare).
• For names that have fallen out of use because the last few bearers died fairly recently (sometime between about 1600 and about now), the usage should be: Italian (Archaic).
• For names that originated in the Middle Ages and for the most part were only used during that era, you can select the usage of: Medieval Italian. Please note: the Middle Ages in Europe lasted from roughly 500 to 1500 and are typically divided into three stages: Early Middle Ages (c. 500-c. 950), High Middle Ages (c. 950-c. 1270) and Late Middle Ages (c. 1270- c. 1500). Here, you also have to take into account when the Italian language first began to develop, which was in the 12th-14th century. Before that, there was no such thing as an Italian language and therefore technically also no Italian names (not as we know them). The names from before the 12th century would have been proper Latin names (except perhaps in Tuscany) and as such are technically Medieval Latin. So, only names from between the years 1100 and 1500 should be classified as Medieval Italian.
Finally, as far as I can tell, Behind the Name (BtN) does not make a distinction between dialects and dominant languages. A language is a language, no matter if it is spoken by only a few thousand people or millions. Each has its unique characteristics and therefore each has an unique influence on names, so they should all be "heard" and receive their time in the spotlight. Besides, if you ask me, the distinction between dialects and dominant languages is often politically motivated, so that the majority (usually people who speak the dominant language) can squash the minority (usually people who speak the minority language) for their benefit. For example: look at how Spain oppressed the Catalan language for decades, even going so far as to forbid Catalan people from giving their children Catalan names. France has done similar things to its minority languages in the past. That is both very wrong and very sad. We are not going to subtly continue those kind of politics by making a distinction between dialects and dominant languages: instead, we welcome each language and treat them and their names as equals. We want to study and preserve as much as possible of each language and their names, and I suppose this is extra important for the minority languages, since they already receive little exposure and support.
All right, I guess that was all. :) Here is some relevant reading material:
- https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Italian_language (stick to the English version if you can, because I am not sure if the Italian version is going to be unbiased)
- https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Middle_Ages
This message was edited 1/11/2019, 5:16 AM
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