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Help[Opinions] Bob & Bill & Peggy
in reply to a message by guasguendi
Bob as a nickname for Robert has always seemed like a stretch. Rob makes sense, but Bob should be short for Bobart.
Bill for William - Where did the B come from? Since it has been used for a while people no longer seem to question it, but where are the Bs coming from in these old nicknames?
Jack as a nickname for John - I like the name Jack, but the only thing that it has in common with John is the first letter. It isn't any shorter than John, so it doesn't serve a real purpose as a nickname.
Molly as a nickname for Mary.
Peggy for Margaret - Why and how did Peggy ever become a nickname for Margaret? The two are nothing alike. Okay, they both have a G in the middle, but they look entirely unrelated to each other.
Bill for William - Where did the B come from? Since it has been used for a while people no longer seem to question it, but where are the Bs coming from in these old nicknames?
Jack as a nickname for John - I like the name Jack, but the only thing that it has in common with John is the first letter. It isn't any shorter than John, so it doesn't serve a real purpose as a nickname.
Molly as a nickname for Mary.
Peggy for Margaret - Why and how did Peggy ever become a nickname for Margaret? The two are nothing alike. Okay, they both have a G in the middle, but they look entirely unrelated to each other.
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Replies
From what I understand Bob, Bill and Peggy come from rhyming slang
Bob > Rob
Bill > Will
Peg > Meg
Molly is of ish understanding. I can see how Mary could have became Malle if you put a heavy accent to Mary, and then from Malle to Molly
No idea about Jack / John though
Bob > Rob
Bill > Will
Peg > Meg
Molly is of ish understanding. I can see how Mary could have became Malle if you put a heavy accent to Mary, and then from Malle to Molly
No idea about Jack / John though
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I've heard about Cockney rhyming slang, but I hadn't considered it being used to alter nicknames. They still feel like a bit of a stretch as nicknames when contrasted with the name that they started with, but I can sort of see what they did there.
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Bobart is cracking me up hahaha
These nicknames were used at a time when 10% or so of all women were called Mary and most of the others were Anne, Margaret or Sarah. So they had to come up with kinds of odd nicknames to tell all of the Marys and Sarahs apart: Mamie, Molly, Sally, Sadie etc.
I like some of the nicknames (Sally, Maisie etc.) but I would use them on their own now, not as a nickname, because most people won't make the connection.
Peggy came from Margaret -> Marge -> Meg -> Peg -> Peggy, I guess. Megan is a Welsh pet form of Margaret and Pegan is as well.
These nicknames were used at a time when 10% or so of all women were called Mary and most of the others were Anne, Margaret or Sarah. So they had to come up with kinds of odd nicknames to tell all of the Marys and Sarahs apart: Mamie, Molly, Sally, Sadie etc.
I like some of the nicknames (Sally, Maisie etc.) but I would use them on their own now, not as a nickname, because most people won't make the connection.
Peggy came from Margaret -> Marge -> Meg -> Peg -> Peggy, I guess. Megan is a Welsh pet form of Margaret and Pegan is as well.
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In the absence of a time machine, these are guesses.
Margaret: shortens to Maggie very easily. If you're bored or playful, Maggie can morph into Meggie. Once that's done, all you need is a sibling with a bad cold (this is the UK we're talking about, back in the Middle Ages probably) and you get Peggy.
Molly and Mary: I also detect the presence of a sibling here. R sounds are notoriously difficult for children, so Molly could be their best attempt at Mary. And it took on a life of its own and, same as Meggie, morphed into Polly.
Jack, or Jock in Scotland, = Johnkin = little John, like a lambkin! And it got shortened.
Bob and Bill also seem to be likely mistakes made by the very young; babies and toddlers find /b/, /d/, /p/ and /m/ easy to say (think baba, dada, papa, mama ...). Parents think this is cute, and perpetuate it.
Margaret: shortens to Maggie very easily. If you're bored or playful, Maggie can morph into Meggie. Once that's done, all you need is a sibling with a bad cold (this is the UK we're talking about, back in the Middle Ages probably) and you get Peggy.
Molly and Mary: I also detect the presence of a sibling here. R sounds are notoriously difficult for children, so Molly could be their best attempt at Mary. And it took on a life of its own and, same as Meggie, morphed into Polly.
Jack, or Jock in Scotland, = Johnkin = little John, like a lambkin! And it got shortened.
Bob and Bill also seem to be likely mistakes made by the very young; babies and toddlers find /b/, /d/, /p/ and /m/ easy to say (think baba, dada, papa, mama ...). Parents think this is cute, and perpetuate it.
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I never realized that Jack, coming from Johnkin, is little John. Johnkin is adorable and does make me think of Jack differently.
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