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Help[Opinions] Your *opinion* constitutes quite a *bold* stack of *assumptions*; I strongly feel the need to *deconstruct* them all
in reply to a message by FairyGirl
First of all, all celebrities do not "always" give their children unusual names, that's an absolutely ridiculous assertion. Far more "celebrities" of every stripe give their children the same sorts of names as everyone else than give them truly unusual ones. Have you even read any of the different books that list celebrity baby names, or are you just relying on the odd news report? Names like Moxie CrimeFighter are few and far between compared to all the little Elizabeth's and Jack's. Do you have a problem with Apple's little brother's name, Moses? If so, why? Have you heard of twins named Hazel and Phinnaeus? Those are "real" names, and they are Julia Roberts' kids. Susan Sarandon and Meg Ryan both have sons named Jack Henry. For every "stupid" celeb baby name you can cite, I bet I can name ten "normal" celeb kids' names.
Second, not all unusual names are "stupid" or "daft." Pretty harsh language for such a mild name as Apple, for cryin out loud. What the hell is wrong with Apple? Are you aware of Gwyneth Paltrow's own take on it, how sweet and "clean" it sounds to her, how the baby is the "Apple" of her father's eye? Why is that a bad thing?
Third, not all children with unusual names get "teased." How would you know what happens to celebrities' kids in school? Go to Beverly Hills High, do you?
Fourth, you have absolutely no way to back up your ludicrous claim that "they will obviously change it when they're older." Frank Zappa's kids seem quite well adjusted and happy to be who they are, and they have not changed their names. Matter of fact, I can't think of a celebrity's child who's grown up famously bearing an unusual name who then changed it in adulthood. Can you name one? More importantly, can you name twenty? Because you'll have to name many more than that for your ridiculous assertion to come close to being probable, much less true.
Fifth, you act as though non-celebs, i.e., regular people like, oh, I don't know, all of us, never use unusual names. Are you even reading other people's posts here? Can you possibly be a member here and be unaware that names like Sonnet, Thursday and Butterfly are very much enjoyed by the "real" people who post here? There are tons more examples I could name. Would you say that because we are not celebrities, those highly unusual names are perfectly okay with you?
Sixth, your own posting name is FairyGirl. Why is it not Emma, if you so despise the use of unusual names? Is it okay for you because you're not a celeb?
Seventh, a great many people who have "celebrity" status have achieved that by being exceptionally good at whatever they do. They are by definition remarkable people. Why should they be limited by what the average masses of humanity do, say, or like?
Finally and most importantly, what the f*k is so great about everyone having the same hundred names? I for one would not want to live in such a colorless world.
Get over yourself.
Edited spelling
~Lillian~
Proud daughter of Ann and John
Proud sister of Lauren and Leah
Proud wife of David
Proud mother of Alexander, Scarlett, Sophia, and Gideon
Second, not all unusual names are "stupid" or "daft." Pretty harsh language for such a mild name as Apple, for cryin out loud. What the hell is wrong with Apple? Are you aware of Gwyneth Paltrow's own take on it, how sweet and "clean" it sounds to her, how the baby is the "Apple" of her father's eye? Why is that a bad thing?
Third, not all children with unusual names get "teased." How would you know what happens to celebrities' kids in school? Go to Beverly Hills High, do you?
Fourth, you have absolutely no way to back up your ludicrous claim that "they will obviously change it when they're older." Frank Zappa's kids seem quite well adjusted and happy to be who they are, and they have not changed their names. Matter of fact, I can't think of a celebrity's child who's grown up famously bearing an unusual name who then changed it in adulthood. Can you name one? More importantly, can you name twenty? Because you'll have to name many more than that for your ridiculous assertion to come close to being probable, much less true.
Fifth, you act as though non-celebs, i.e., regular people like, oh, I don't know, all of us, never use unusual names. Are you even reading other people's posts here? Can you possibly be a member here and be unaware that names like Sonnet, Thursday and Butterfly are very much enjoyed by the "real" people who post here? There are tons more examples I could name. Would you say that because we are not celebrities, those highly unusual names are perfectly okay with you?
Sixth, your own posting name is FairyGirl. Why is it not Emma, if you so despise the use of unusual names? Is it okay for you because you're not a celeb?
Seventh, a great many people who have "celebrity" status have achieved that by being exceptionally good at whatever they do. They are by definition remarkable people. Why should they be limited by what the average masses of humanity do, say, or like?
Finally and most importantly, what the f*k is so great about everyone having the same hundred names? I for one would not want to live in such a colorless world.
Get over yourself.
Edited spelling
~Lillian~
Proud daughter of Ann and John
Proud sister of Lauren and Leah
Proud wife of David
Proud mother of Alexander, Scarlett, Sophia, and Gideon
This message was edited 6/4/2006, 3:41 PM
Archived Thread - replies disabled
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Replies
On the question of point four...
Matter of fact, I can't think of a celebrity's child who's grown up famously bearing an unusual name who then changed it in adulthood.
I can name one, and that's Zowie Bowie, who first changed to Joey and then to Duncan. I can't name any other celebrity children who've done so, though.
Array
Always remember the Fitz family motto: Believe in yourself, believe in others, and work like hell.
A revolution without dancing is a revolution not worth having.
Matter of fact, I can't think of a celebrity's child who's grown up famously bearing an unusual name who then changed it in adulthood.
I can name one, and that's Zowie Bowie, who first changed to Joey and then to Duncan. I can't name any other celebrity children who've done so, though.
Array
Always remember the Fitz family motto: Believe in yourself, believe in others, and work like hell.
A revolution without dancing is a revolution not worth having.
1
Okay, very good then, that's one
But you and I both know her assertion was flawed.
~Lillian~
Proud daughter of Ann and John
Proud sister of Lauren and Leah
Proud wife of David
Proud mother of Alexander, Scarlett, Sophia, and Gideon
But you and I both know her assertion was flawed.
~Lillian~
Proud daughter of Ann and John
Proud sister of Lauren and Leah
Proud wife of David
Proud mother of Alexander, Scarlett, Sophia, and Gideon
1
Oh, I agree that her assertion's completely flawed...(m)
...I just like being contrary. :D And I like referencing David Bowie, of course.
Also, I'm pretty sure Moon Unit Zappa doesn't respond to her full name but only Moon (but that's not a name change, really).
Array
Mick Jagger is older than:
1. Velcro
2. Cake mix
3. Israel
A revolution without dancing is a revolution not worth having.
...I just like being contrary. :D And I like referencing David Bowie, of course.
Also, I'm pretty sure Moon Unit Zappa doesn't respond to her full name but only Moon (but that's not a name change, really).
Array
Mick Jagger is older than:
1. Velcro
2. Cake mix
3. Israel
A revolution without dancing is a revolution not worth having.
1
And I forgot to mention
I love your new Mick sig! Very funny! :D
~Lillian~
Proud daughter of Ann and John
Proud sister of Lauren and Leah
Proud wife of David
Proud mother of Alexander, Scarlett, Sophia, and Gideon
I love your new Mick sig! Very funny! :D
~Lillian~
Proud daughter of Ann and John
Proud sister of Lauren and Leah
Proud wife of David
Proud mother of Alexander, Scarlett, Sophia, and Gideon
1
My theory about Moon Unit
is that Frank might have felt the same way about name combos that I do, i.e., that assonance and alliteration make for great-sounding combos. If you ignore the meanings of the words themselves and focus on the sounds, Moon Unit actually sounds very pretty, imo.
~Lillian~
Proud daughter of Ann and John
Proud sister of Lauren and Leah
Proud wife of David
Proud mother of Alexander, Scarlett, Sophia, and Gideon
is that Frank might have felt the same way about name combos that I do, i.e., that assonance and alliteration make for great-sounding combos. If you ignore the meanings of the words themselves and focus on the sounds, Moon Unit actually sounds very pretty, imo.
~Lillian~
Proud daughter of Ann and John
Proud sister of Lauren and Leah
Proud wife of David
Proud mother of Alexander, Scarlett, Sophia, and Gideon
1
I agree
I agree with you, and anopther thing i can't stand is when people assumed they named their children after celebs/celeb's children because they were born after the celeb was...oy it irks me. Or they assume you just *had* to name your kid after a cleb because you choose the same name as them...sorry lol i just had to rant :).
I agree with you totally!
-----------------------------------------------
Ron Weasley: Mum sent me something...
Ron Weasley: Mum sent me a dress.
Harry: Well it does match your eyes. Is there a bonnet?
I agree with you, and anopther thing i can't stand is when people assumed they named their children after celebs/celeb's children because they were born after the celeb was...oy it irks me. Or they assume you just *had* to name your kid after a cleb because you choose the same name as them...sorry lol i just had to rant :).
I agree with you totally!
-----------------------------------------------
Ron Weasley: Mum sent me something...
Ron Weasley: Mum sent me a dress.
Harry: Well it does match your eyes. Is there a bonnet?
This message was edited 6/4/2006, 6:07 PM
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No, you're quite right, it's not ranting, and thanks for your agreement
I know you mean River Phoenix, and I have read some of your posts about how you feel about that name. I love River, and I like Phoenix well enough, and I know it irks you when people assume you're doing it for the OD'd actor.
~Lillian~
Proud daughter of Ann and John
Proud sister of Lauren and Leah
Proud wife of David
Proud mother of Alexander, Scarlett, Sophia, and Gideon
I know you mean River Phoenix, and I have read some of your posts about how you feel about that name. I love River, and I like Phoenix well enough, and I know it irks you when people assume you're doing it for the OD'd actor.
~Lillian~
Proud daughter of Ann and John
Proud sister of Lauren and Leah
Proud wife of David
Proud mother of Alexander, Scarlett, Sophia, and Gideon
1
hehe...i mean other names too! It's just like ah you know what i mean? It makes me wanna scream. OR I like Shiloh, and people think because Iposted after Angelina Jolie had her kid that's why I like it which is so not true, i've liked it years before that, ever since the movie Shiloh came out...LOL :)
People don't get it though they think im complaining about people thinkof of him. I don't mind the River Phoenix association at all! [Um hello I adore the guy! lol] but it's when people insited that im lying or something irks me ya know? :) I am so in love with your kids names! good taste!
-----------------------------------------------
Ron Weasley: Mum sent me something...
Ron Weasley: Mum sent me a dress.
Harry: Well it does match your eyes. Is there a bonnet?
People don't get it though they think im complaining about people thinkof of him. I don't mind the River Phoenix association at all! [Um hello I adore the guy! lol] but it's when people insited that im lying or something irks me ya know? :) I am so in love with your kids names! good taste!
-----------------------------------------------
Ron Weasley: Mum sent me something...
Ron Weasley: Mum sent me a dress.
Harry: Well it does match your eyes. Is there a bonnet?
1
Damn, Lillian.
That was good. :-) I enjoyed reading it.
The abolition of religion as the illusory happiness of the people is the demand for their real happiness.
To call on them to give up their illusions about their condition is to call on them to give up a condition that requires illusions.
-Marx-
That was good. :-) I enjoyed reading it.
To call on them to give up their illusions about their condition is to call on them to give up a condition that requires illusions.
-Marx-
1
*LOL* Thanks very much, Eilis! :D
~Lillian~
Proud daughter of Ann and John
Proud sister of Lauren and Leah
Proud wife of David
Proud mother of Alexander, Scarlett, Sophia, and Gideon
~Lillian~
Proud daughter of Ann and John
Proud sister of Lauren and Leah
Proud wife of David
Proud mother of Alexander, Scarlett, Sophia, and Gideon
1
I agree with most of your points, but...
I felt the need to "deconstruct" a couple of things in your post.
First of all:
Sixth, your own posting name is FairyGirl. Why is it not Emma, if you so despise the use of unusual names? Is it okay for you because you're not a celeb?
There's really no comparison between a posting name and a real, legal, given name, so this point really weakens your argument.
Second:
Finally and most importantly, what the f*k is so great about everyone having the same hundred names?
You talk about assumptions, and yet here you've made one yourself. Nowhere did she suggest that everyone should have "the same hundred names." She never said that every unusual name is a bad name. There is a huge middle ground between popular names and off-the-wall names like Apple, which wasn't even considered a name until Gwyneth Paltrow used it.
---
Friendship is more lasting than love, and more legal than stalking.
-Jane, Coupling
I felt the need to "deconstruct" a couple of things in your post.
First of all:
Sixth, your own posting name is FairyGirl. Why is it not Emma, if you so despise the use of unusual names? Is it okay for you because you're not a celeb?
There's really no comparison between a posting name and a real, legal, given name, so this point really weakens your argument.
Second:
Finally and most importantly, what the f*k is so great about everyone having the same hundred names?
You talk about assumptions, and yet here you've made one yourself. Nowhere did she suggest that everyone should have "the same hundred names." She never said that every unusual name is a bad name. There is a huge middle ground between popular names and off-the-wall names like Apple, which wasn't even considered a name until Gwyneth Paltrow used it.
Friendship is more lasting than love, and more legal than stalking.
-Jane, Coupling
1
My argument is NOT weakened
There is a VERY strong argument to be made about the difference between real names and posting names, and it's a shame if you don't get it. We all know that 99.9% of people's names are chosen for them at birth by their parents. Whatever FairyGirl's real name is, I would bet large sums of money that she did NOT choose it herself. By contrast, posting names are chosen by the persons themselves, specifically for the sole purpose of representing oneself to the world. FairyGirl is an awfully flighty name to CHOOSE, for someone who doesn't like "stupid" and "daft" names.
Also, the tone and language FairyGirl CHOSE shows a very strong and clear dislike and disdain for unusual names (do I need to write "stupid" and "daft" again?). To begin with, she feels strongly enough about it to have to write the post at all. She used the absolutes "always" and "will" to describe total strangers' behavior, experience and motivation. "...they will be teased...will obviously change it..." I did not assume or imagine it; it's very obvious how she feels.
And I did not make an assumption about FairyGirl wanting everyone to use the same hundred names, I was expressing my OWN opinion about the seeming constant chatter on this board regarding other people's name choices being "stupid" or "daft" or "highly offensive" (as Adonai is, evidently, to Jews, like that should make a huge difference to someone who is not Jewish). It very often sounds as though many, many people here wish everyone on Earth would restrict their choices to what we BtN posters like. And I can't STAND some of the names other BtN posters like!
I am GLAD Gwyneth Paltrow and Chris Martin named their baby Apple. I perceive it to be everything they think it is, sweet and innocent and poetic. And that is my OPINION. FairyGirl is entitled to her OPINION, too. And I can even have the OPINION that her OPINION is "stupid" and "daft." And YOU can have the same OPINION about ME, you are entitled to it as well.
There is a VERY strong argument to be made about the difference between real names and posting names, and it's a shame if you don't get it. We all know that 99.9% of people's names are chosen for them at birth by their parents. Whatever FairyGirl's real name is, I would bet large sums of money that she did NOT choose it herself. By contrast, posting names are chosen by the persons themselves, specifically for the sole purpose of representing oneself to the world. FairyGirl is an awfully flighty name to CHOOSE, for someone who doesn't like "stupid" and "daft" names.
Also, the tone and language FairyGirl CHOSE shows a very strong and clear dislike and disdain for unusual names (do I need to write "stupid" and "daft" again?). To begin with, she feels strongly enough about it to have to write the post at all. She used the absolutes "always" and "will" to describe total strangers' behavior, experience and motivation. "...they will be teased...will obviously change it..." I did not assume or imagine it; it's very obvious how she feels.
And I did not make an assumption about FairyGirl wanting everyone to use the same hundred names, I was expressing my OWN opinion about the seeming constant chatter on this board regarding other people's name choices being "stupid" or "daft" or "highly offensive" (as Adonai is, evidently, to Jews, like that should make a huge difference to someone who is not Jewish). It very often sounds as though many, many people here wish everyone on Earth would restrict their choices to what we BtN posters like. And I can't STAND some of the names other BtN posters like!
I am GLAD Gwyneth Paltrow and Chris Martin named their baby Apple. I perceive it to be everything they think it is, sweet and innocent and poetic. And that is my OPINION. FairyGirl is entitled to her OPINION, too. And I can even have the OPINION that her OPINION is "stupid" and "daft." And YOU can have the same OPINION about ME, you are entitled to it as well.
1
I'd take exception to the statement the "posting names are specifically chosen for the sole purpose of representing oneself to the world." not really, or, not always. Some are chosen to avoid using one's actual name, as is prudent in a public forum.
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Of course sometimes to avoid using one's actual name
That much is obvious. However, I stand by my original statement. I haven't noticed anyone using their IP number as their posting name. THAT would be true anonymity. People CHOOSE their posting names, and they do not do so in a vacuum, whatever reasons they may have.
Are you saying that people choose their posting names randomly, and that posting names do not reflect who people are inside (regardless of RL identity), nor how they wish to be perceived? Because that is my very point. What does Tassiegirl mean to you? How do you wish the world to view the poster Tassiegirl? Do you suppose the world would view you differently if you posted as something else? [These are rhetorical questions, btw.] I submit that posting names are very much reflections of us, and most people consciously realize that.
I would fully expect to be vilified if I posted as, for example, "Satanchick," and again thought of very differently if I called myself "Angelbreath" or something. That's all I'm saying. FairyGirl chose her posting name, and it's fine, if flighty, as I said. Even flightiness itself is fine. But her attitude seems overwrought and, given the nature of her posting name, tinged with hypocrisy. That is my opinion.
~Lillian~
Proud daughter of Ann and John
Proud sister of Lauren and Leah
Proud wife of David
Proud mother of Alexander, Scarlett, Sophia, and Gideon
That much is obvious. However, I stand by my original statement. I haven't noticed anyone using their IP number as their posting name. THAT would be true anonymity. People CHOOSE their posting names, and they do not do so in a vacuum, whatever reasons they may have.
Are you saying that people choose their posting names randomly, and that posting names do not reflect who people are inside (regardless of RL identity), nor how they wish to be perceived? Because that is my very point. What does Tassiegirl mean to you? How do you wish the world to view the poster Tassiegirl? Do you suppose the world would view you differently if you posted as something else? [These are rhetorical questions, btw.] I submit that posting names are very much reflections of us, and most people consciously realize that.
I would fully expect to be vilified if I posted as, for example, "Satanchick," and again thought of very differently if I called myself "Angelbreath" or something. That's all I'm saying. FairyGirl chose her posting name, and it's fine, if flighty, as I said. Even flightiness itself is fine. But her attitude seems overwrought and, given the nature of her posting name, tinged with hypocrisy. That is my opinion.
~Lillian~
Proud daughter of Ann and John
Proud sister of Lauren and Leah
Proud wife of David
Proud mother of Alexander, Scarlett, Sophia, and Gideon
1
I don't "think" having a posting name such as FairyGirl and disliking unusual names such as Apple (which I personally think is one of the worst (most "stupid") names that I have heard) is hypocritical. If she changed her given name from Lillian to FairyGirl (just an example I don't know what her name is) then you could call it hypocrisy. Also, I know in many of the classes I have been in a "regular" person named Apple would most likely be made fun of (or asked about their name often), but if someone wants to name their child something stange go ahead. Someday, if the child chooses they can change it. Also, it was just someones oppinion yet you "appeared" to be extremly upset about it why? Your children don't have unsual/strange names in fact they seem quite genaric except for Gideon which I haven't heard too often. Oh, and just so you don't call me a hypocrit I am not upset about your post I just thought it was kind of funny that FairyGirl's post was such a big deal.
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I would not
call you a hypocrite, I have no reason to. I did not call FairyGirl a hypocrite either. I said her attitude is overwrought and tinged with hypocrisy, and I still think that. I was not "upset" by her post, I merely differed with her. Did you happen to notice her post begins with a question? I was answering it, in my own way.
And no, my children do not have "unusual/strange" names, as you say, yet I defend the right of anyone to choose such a name, be it Apple or Moxie CrimeFighter or most anything else. I have yet to hear a valid reason from anyone why people, celebs or otherwise, should not choose such names, and I grow weary of childish, foot-stamping rants against those who do.
~Lillian~
Proud daughter of Ann and John
Proud sister of Lauren and Leah
Proud wife of David
Proud mother of Alexander, Scarlett, Sophia, and Gideon
call you a hypocrite, I have no reason to. I did not call FairyGirl a hypocrite either. I said her attitude is overwrought and tinged with hypocrisy, and I still think that. I was not "upset" by her post, I merely differed with her. Did you happen to notice her post begins with a question? I was answering it, in my own way.
And no, my children do not have "unusual/strange" names, as you say, yet I defend the right of anyone to choose such a name, be it Apple or Moxie CrimeFighter or most anything else. I have yet to hear a valid reason from anyone why people, celebs or otherwise, should not choose such names, and I grow weary of childish, foot-stamping rants against those who do.
~Lillian~
Proud daughter of Ann and John
Proud sister of Lauren and Leah
Proud wife of David
Proud mother of Alexander, Scarlett, Sophia, and Gideon
1