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Help[Facts] Re: Fence with me, willya?
in reply to a message by Nanaea
Ill check out the site :) As far as the Hellenic tradition is concerned, demons were spirits and not a priori evil.
As a matter of fact, Eosforos (Lucifer, in Latin) means "bearer of light", i.e. knowledge and wisdom. The Hellenic
concept of Hell (pun not intended!) is Hades, from "Ha" (not-) "dei" (to see). Hell means not being able to see,
being blinded by ignorance and/or oblivion. Hence the Hellenic ("pagan" if you will) notions of
"Eosforos/Lucifer" and "hell" are incompatible and mutually exclusive. This is why I'm kinda weary of by
modern-day "satanists" who justify their raison d'etre from the all-too-human human wrongs of applied
judeochristianity. But what do I know, I'm just a poor Greek boy :p
As a matter of fact, Eosforos (Lucifer, in Latin) means "bearer of light", i.e. knowledge and wisdom. The Hellenic
concept of Hell (pun not intended!) is Hades, from "Ha" (not-) "dei" (to see). Hell means not being able to see,
being blinded by ignorance and/or oblivion. Hence the Hellenic ("pagan" if you will) notions of
"Eosforos/Lucifer" and "hell" are incompatible and mutually exclusive. This is why I'm kinda weary of by
modern-day "satanists" who justify their raison d'etre from the all-too-human human wrongs of applied
judeochristianity. But what do I know, I'm just a poor Greek boy :p
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Replies
Lucifer, Superstar
As you said, the name "Lucifer" does mean "bearer of light", but I believe the use of this name in the Book of Isaiah was a reference not to "light" as in the sense of "enlightenment", but rather to the actual physical light borne by the Morning Star -- the planet Venus, one of the brightest celestial objects often seen at dawn. The actual Hebrew word originally used for Lucifer in the book of Isaiah is "Heylel" (which, btw, makes a great Satanic name). It was the Greek Septuagint Bible which translated this word "Heylel" (meaning brightness, morning star) into the "Eosforos" you mentioned (literally meaning "bringer of the morning", I believe), and then "Eosforos" was translated to "Lucifer" ("bringer of light") in the Latin Vulgate Bible. Personally, I prefer that the name of Lucifer be associated with the bringing of enlightenment to mankind, but I don't believe this was the intention of the people who originally penned the Bible -- who viewed Lucifer as the bright "star" of his time who fell from grace through an excess of pride.
Interestingly, Jesus is also referred to as "The Morning Star" in the Book of Revelations, thus supporting the pagan contention of how early Christianity actively set out to displace the old gods in the collective consciousness of the common folk.
-- Nanaea
Gotta get started on my holiday Saturnalia shopping...
As you said, the name "Lucifer" does mean "bearer of light", but I believe the use of this name in the Book of Isaiah was a reference not to "light" as in the sense of "enlightenment", but rather to the actual physical light borne by the Morning Star -- the planet Venus, one of the brightest celestial objects often seen at dawn. The actual Hebrew word originally used for Lucifer in the book of Isaiah is "Heylel" (which, btw, makes a great Satanic name). It was the Greek Septuagint Bible which translated this word "Heylel" (meaning brightness, morning star) into the "Eosforos" you mentioned (literally meaning "bringer of the morning", I believe), and then "Eosforos" was translated to "Lucifer" ("bringer of light") in the Latin Vulgate Bible. Personally, I prefer that the name of Lucifer be associated with the bringing of enlightenment to mankind, but I don't believe this was the intention of the people who originally penned the Bible -- who viewed Lucifer as the bright "star" of his time who fell from grace through an excess of pride.
Interestingly, Jesus is also referred to as "The Morning Star" in the Book of Revelations, thus supporting the pagan contention of how early Christianity actively set out to displace the old gods in the collective consciousness of the common folk.
-- Nanaea
Gotta get started on my holiday Saturnalia shopping...
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I think in the final analysis we agree on the basic life stance. I just opt to totally circumvent the entire JudeoChristian trip.
Enjoy decorating yer upside-down tree :)))
PS. Cool anagrams of JudeoChristian:
Hot acids injure
Hoard injustice
It injured chaos
Drains hot juice
Cretinous Hadji
Juiciest hardron
Enjoy decorating yer upside-down tree :)))
PS. Cool anagrams of JudeoChristian:
Hot acids injure
Hoard injustice
It injured chaos
Drains hot juice
Cretinous Hadji
Juiciest hardron
1
I think in the final analysis we agree on the basic life stance. I just opt to totally circumvent the entire JudeoChristian trip.
@@@@ Well, not having been raised a Christian, I have no personal axe to grind against Christianity. It's been my experience that the ones who make the biggest deal out of so-called "Black Mass" rituals and "Satan as the Anti-Christ" themes happen to be disaffected (and somewhat bitter) former Christians, themselves, who have "defected" from their flock to join "the other side". Satanism is more a philosophy, as I see it, than an actual religion -- and not necessarily the flip side of any JudeoChristian coin. If JudeoChristian values appear to come up frequently in Satanic discussions, it is only because here in the U.S. we happen to live in a JudeoChristian culture.
Enjoy decorating yer upside-down tree :)))
@@@@ Got an angel for the top, and its head spins 'round! :)
PS. Cool anagrams of JudeoChristian:
Hot acids injure
Hoard injustice
It injured chaos
Drains hot juice
Cretinous Hadji
Juiciest hardron
@@@@ All of which also make cool names for rock bands. "Cretinous Hadji" being my favorite. :)
-- Nanaea
@@@@ Well, not having been raised a Christian, I have no personal axe to grind against Christianity. It's been my experience that the ones who make the biggest deal out of so-called "Black Mass" rituals and "Satan as the Anti-Christ" themes happen to be disaffected (and somewhat bitter) former Christians, themselves, who have "defected" from their flock to join "the other side". Satanism is more a philosophy, as I see it, than an actual religion -- and not necessarily the flip side of any JudeoChristian coin. If JudeoChristian values appear to come up frequently in Satanic discussions, it is only because here in the U.S. we happen to live in a JudeoChristian culture.
Enjoy decorating yer upside-down tree :)))
@@@@ Got an angel for the top, and its head spins 'round! :)
PS. Cool anagrams of JudeoChristian:
Hot acids injure
Hoard injustice
It injured chaos
Drains hot juice
Cretinous Hadji
Juiciest hardron
@@@@ All of which also make cool names for rock bands. "Cretinous Hadji" being my favorite. :)
-- Nanaea
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Btw "cretinous" has an interesting etymology hehe
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Something to do with the island of Crete, I presume? Do tell! :)
Oh yeah, and one more reason (I'd forgotten to mention) for why I'm a Satanist. It amuses me when it pisses off people like Anonymous Amy here. ;)
-- Nanaea
Oh yeah, and one more reason (I'd forgotten to mention) for why I'm a Satanist. It amuses me when it pisses off people like Anonymous Amy here. ;)
-- Nanaea
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I like your format, so here goes:
"Something to do with the island of Crete, I presume? Do tell! :)"
@@@ Nope, nothing to do with Crete :) It is actually quite delicious:
To quote dictionary.com:
Cre·tin (krtn) n. 1. A person afflicted with cretinism. 2.Offensive Slang. An idiot.
[French cre'tin, from French dialectal deformed and mentally retarded person, from Vulgar Latin *christinus,
Christian, human being, poor fellow, from Latin Chrstinus, Christian; see Christian.]
"Oh yeah, and one more reason (I'd forgotten to mention) for why I'm a Satanist. It amuses me when it
pisses off people like Anonymous Amy here. ;) "
@@@ I catch your drift. I often make it a hobby to disequilibrate Amy-types. Next time I see one
in the bus I'll give him/her the horned version of the "live-long and prosper" finger salute
(whatever it is called!) :P
"Something to do with the island of Crete, I presume? Do tell! :)"
@@@ Nope, nothing to do with Crete :) It is actually quite delicious:
To quote dictionary.com:
Cre·tin (krtn) n. 1. A person afflicted with cretinism. 2.Offensive Slang. An idiot.
[French cre'tin, from French dialectal deformed and mentally retarded person, from Vulgar Latin *christinus,
Christian, human being, poor fellow, from Latin Chrstinus, Christian; see Christian.]
"Oh yeah, and one more reason (I'd forgotten to mention) for why I'm a Satanist. It amuses me when it
pisses off people like Anonymous Amy here. ;) "
@@@ I catch your drift. I often make it a hobby to disequilibrate Amy-types. Next time I see one
in the bus I'll give him/her the horned version of the "live-long and prosper" finger salute
(whatever it is called!) :P
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The last bit of that definition was amusingly evil. No wonder I like you. :)
Can't say the same for Amy, though. I'm afraid "Muskrat Love" rocks harder than Amy. ;)
-- Nanaea
Can't say the same for Amy, though. I'm afraid "Muskrat Love" rocks harder than Amy. ;)
-- Nanaea
1
Maybe we should lock her in a room and have her listen to Current 93 (stuff I used to listen back in the 80s which you might have also been keen on) for a couple of hours.
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