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Help[Opinions] Re: hypocritical?
in reply to a message by klundtacular
Thank you, but I don't need any sophomoric lectures about consent and rape, using tea as an analogy. I understand consent and rape.
"Gentle rape" isn't a real thing. I never said it was. It's a thing that exists in books and movies and people's fantasies but not in real life. The fact is, though, that some women fantasize about rape, in which they really never give consent during the whole of the imaginary sequence, and they like the fantasy. It does differ from real life rape in many ways, but not in the giving consent part.
What I do think is that men should not have to obtain explicit permission every time before they make the next move, and that if and when it gets to the point that the woman wants it to stop, it's her responsibility to say, "No." And when the man hears, "No", he should stop. I tried to make that as simple as possible.
"Gentle rape" isn't a real thing. I never said it was. It's a thing that exists in books and movies and people's fantasies but not in real life. The fact is, though, that some women fantasize about rape, in which they really never give consent during the whole of the imaginary sequence, and they like the fantasy. It does differ from real life rape in many ways, but not in the giving consent part.
What I do think is that men should not have to obtain explicit permission every time before they make the next move, and that if and when it gets to the point that the woman wants it to stop, it's her responsibility to say, "No." And when the man hears, "No", he should stop. I tried to make that as simple as possible.
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Apparently you do need sophomoric lectures about consent and rape because even if someone does have a rape fantasy in which they don't give explicit consent, they are still mentally giving consent to the mental activity. It's not rape fantasy. It does differ from real rape because the fantasy sexual activity is wanted. A real rape has sexual contact that is not wanted. It's very basic stuff here. I'm not sure why you don't understand it.
Your last paragraph would be fabulous if that worked out that way in the real world. Sometimes women go catatonic, disassociate from their bodies, sometimes they start crying uncontrollably, sometimes they are so drunk or drugged or asleep or unconscious that they can't give coherent consent. A woman/girl doesn't know how she's going to behave in a rape until it actually happens to her. Maybe you need to volunteer with a rape recovery center or something to really understand this.
Your last paragraph would be fabulous if that worked out that way in the real world. Sometimes women go catatonic, disassociate from their bodies, sometimes they start crying uncontrollably, sometimes they are so drunk or drugged or asleep or unconscious that they can't give coherent consent. A woman/girl doesn't know how she's going to behave in a rape until it actually happens to her. Maybe you need to volunteer with a rape recovery center or something to really understand this.
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Oh Jesus Christ. Where did I say that rape fantasy does NOT differ from real rape? Nowhere! I did not say that! I said the exact opposite! I didn't think it was even necessary to point that out to begin with, it should be patently obvious, but I forgot that everything needs to be foreseen and forestalled on the internet, so I did point it out in response to solveig. Yes, there's a form of mental consent when one has a fantasy--my point was that there's no consent within the fantasy itself.
It never pays to keep things simple, does it? Obviously, if a woman is unconscious, or impaired, she can't give consent and a man should know that, and if she starts crying, he should know there's a problem. OTOH, if I hear, "I didn't want to but I said nothing because I disassociated from my body so it's rape", I'll do nothing but roll my eyes.
I should have known that mention of "gentle rape" was going to cause someone to foam at the mouth. Sorry, but it's a thing, though not in real life.
Maybe you should become a criminal defense attorney and volunteer your time pro bono to those falsely accused of crimes, including rape, to really understand this.
It never pays to keep things simple, does it? Obviously, if a woman is unconscious, or impaired, she can't give consent and a man should know that, and if she starts crying, he should know there's a problem. OTOH, if I hear, "I didn't want to but I said nothing because I disassociated from my body so it's rape", I'll do nothing but roll my eyes.
I should have known that mention of "gentle rape" was going to cause someone to foam at the mouth. Sorry, but it's a thing, though not in real life.
Maybe you should become a criminal defense attorney and volunteer your time pro bono to those falsely accused of crimes, including rape, to really understand this.
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This message was edited 10/25/2016, 3:57 PM
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Then I would tell juries that if the encounter had been in a book or movie, it would be gentle rape and so it's no big deal and men should aspire to be him.
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*eyeroll*
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