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Help[Facts] Re: For anyone who speaks Hebrew...
in reply to a message by Julia
Isabel (and all it's variants) is actually Jezebel (איזבל -- ’Ízebel), which is Phœnician; it might mean "Where Is The Prince (Lofty One, that is to say)". I am not persuaded that it is derived from the Castilian Spanish form of Elizabeth as BehindTheName.com suggests; in Ladíno, the Castilian dialect of Səfā́rodim Jews, it is rendered Ýsabel.
It certainly does not mean 'dung', technically speaking. Considering nevertheless the possible meaning "Where Is The Prince?", which is to assert "There Is No Prince" (as another website defines this name as denoting), it makes sense that BehindTheName.com renders Jezebel as meaning "Not Exalted": given that in ancient ages sons were valued more than daughters, as male heirs were the ones to carry on a family's line, if a man (or family) had a daughter but no son this manfamily was consequently viewed as having nothing (that is, mere waste) to their lineage. I speculate that perchance this was the case with King EthBä'äl of Tsídón (or Sīdon) [note that reference here is drawn from God's Word the Bible (or haTanakh) @ 1Kings 16:29-33, the first recorded usage of the name Isabel], that is to say he had a princess yet no prince: 'where is the prince', thus? 'there is no prince', his royal line is 'not exalted'. His daughter would amount to mere waste in connection with imperial legacy. Princess JezebelIsabel may have been designated her name on this account. In EthBä'äl’s giving of the princess as wife to unruly King Äħā́v, the nation of Tsídón came into profound paganish-political partnership with holy Yisraël; perhaps in this way Isabel was of royal function to her father.
The last three Latin letters (or two in the Hebrew) of IsabelJezebel can possibly be a reference to the demon-deity BélBä'äl (AkkadianSəmitic for master, lord, owner), though I'm not assured of just how possible it is that the name in its entirety means Daughter of BélBä'äl as suggested by this website. One would think, if that were the case, that the name would sound something like 'Batbel' (Master’s Daughter).
It certainly does not mean 'dung', technically speaking. Considering nevertheless the possible meaning "Where Is The Prince?", which is to assert "There Is No Prince" (as another website defines this name as denoting), it makes sense that BehindTheName.com renders Jezebel as meaning "Not Exalted": given that in ancient ages sons were valued more than daughters, as male heirs were the ones to carry on a family's line, if a man (or family) had a daughter but no son this manfamily was consequently viewed as having nothing (that is, mere waste) to their lineage. I speculate that perchance this was the case with King EthBä'äl of Tsídón (or Sīdon) [note that reference here is drawn from God's Word the Bible (or haTanakh) @ 1Kings 16:29-33, the first recorded usage of the name Isabel], that is to say he had a princess yet no prince: 'where is the prince', thus? 'there is no prince', his royal line is 'not exalted'. His daughter would amount to mere waste in connection with imperial legacy. Princess JezebelIsabel may have been designated her name on this account. In EthBä'äl’s giving of the princess as wife to unruly King Äħā́v, the nation of Tsídón came into profound paganish-political partnership with holy Yisraël; perhaps in this way Isabel was of royal function to her father.
The last three Latin letters (or two in the Hebrew) of IsabelJezebel can possibly be a reference to the demon-deity BélBä'äl (AkkadianSəmitic for master, lord, owner), though I'm not assured of just how possible it is that the name in its entirety means Daughter of BélBä'äl as suggested by this website. One would think, if that were the case, that the name would sound something like 'Batbel' (Master’s Daughter).
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Replies
Hi, Jared (if this is your real name) !
Thank you for your elaborate answer! Very interesting and obviously no "shit" around. Your interpretation of "Where is the prince?" sounds convincing (if the translation is correct; I don't know an Phoenecian and just about figure out the Hebrew word "ayeh" in Aleph-Yod, but I don’t know the Phoenecian word for „prince“, maybe it has something to do with „baal“). Would the name only be given to a princess, or would any father call his son "prince"?
I too have always wondered whether the biblical name Jezebel (Izevel) comes in with ISABEL. It's just too tempting to believe this and respectable name books do consider the possibility.
But I am not sure. There is only one Jezebel in the bible, and she is wicked and mean, definetely no-one to identify with. So why should her name be given either by Jews or Christians? I realise that her husband’s name Ahab did prevail, and he too was (almost) the only one in the bible. Do you have any information about the further Jewish use of Jezebel /Izevel?
May I ask one more question: What books or other sources do you use?
Andy ;—)
Thank you for your elaborate answer! Very interesting and obviously no "shit" around. Your interpretation of "Where is the prince?" sounds convincing (if the translation is correct; I don't know an Phoenecian and just about figure out the Hebrew word "ayeh" in Aleph-Yod, but I don’t know the Phoenecian word for „prince“, maybe it has something to do with „baal“). Would the name only be given to a princess, or would any father call his son "prince"?
I too have always wondered whether the biblical name Jezebel (Izevel) comes in with ISABEL. It's just too tempting to believe this and respectable name books do consider the possibility.
But I am not sure. There is only one Jezebel in the bible, and she is wicked and mean, definetely no-one to identify with. So why should her name be given either by Jews or Christians? I realise that her husband’s name Ahab did prevail, and he too was (almost) the only one in the bible. Do you have any information about the further Jewish use of Jezebel /Izevel?
May I ask one more question: What books or other sources do you use?
Andy ;—)
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> Jared (if this is your real name)
Yes, after all these years I finally am posting online with my real name...
"for once... let me look on you with my own eyes"
--Anakin Skywalker, SW6
> would any father call his son "prince"?
I suppose any father could call his son "Prince" out of parental affection.
> There is only one Jezebel in the Bible, and she is wicked
> and mean, definitely no-one to identify with. So why should
> her name be given either by Jews or Christians?
Over the centuries people began naming their baby girls Jezebel/Isabel (and all its variations) without likely realizing just what it was that they were calling their kids by. Perhaps Isabella can sound romantic to people..
> Do you have any information about the further Jewish use
> of Jezebel/Izevel?
The Jewish Christian Apostle Yọħā́nā́n(John) spoke by divine inspiration of another 'Jezebel' @Revelation 2:18-23 in the Christian-Greek Scriptures(New Testament); while such was not her real name, this "woman" had declared herself a 'prophetess' in the midst of the Christian congregation (of the 1st century-era) yet her wicked and immoral behaviour was parallel unto infamous Queen Jezebel --which is the reason that such a dungy epithet was used to distinguish her.
> What books or other sources do you use?
Well, that's going somewhat off-topic, given that it's not a name-related question.. I'll post a reply to it over in 'The Lounge' board under "conversation continued from Name Facts Board id=49485"
Anyjow, I have conducted some further research and I must somewhat revise my earlier examination of this mid-eastern name, Isabel.
The Bä’äl venerated by the Philistines at their ancient city of Eqrọn was Zəvüv, that is to say in English, Baal-zebub/Beelzebub; this name is interchangeable with Beel-Zeboul(Zebül?). Now, it would seemed to have been a customary habit in ancient Yisraël to alter the names attributed to pagan deities worshiped by the surrounding peoples, substituting words which exhibited a resemblance in pronunciation though dishonorable in context.
Yes, after all these years I finally am posting online with my real name...
"for once... let me look on you with my own eyes"
--Anakin Skywalker, SW6
> would any father call his son "prince"?
I suppose any father could call his son "Prince" out of parental affection.
> There is only one Jezebel in the Bible, and she is wicked
> and mean, definitely no-one to identify with. So why should
> her name be given either by Jews or Christians?
Over the centuries people began naming their baby girls Jezebel/Isabel (and all its variations) without likely realizing just what it was that they were calling their kids by. Perhaps Isabella can sound romantic to people..
> Do you have any information about the further Jewish use
> of Jezebel/Izevel?
The Jewish Christian Apostle Yọħā́nā́n(John) spoke by divine inspiration of another 'Jezebel' @Revelation 2:18-23 in the Christian-Greek Scriptures(New Testament); while such was not her real name, this "woman" had declared herself a 'prophetess' in the midst of the Christian congregation (of the 1st century-era) yet her wicked and immoral behaviour was parallel unto infamous Queen Jezebel --which is the reason that such a dungy epithet was used to distinguish her.
> What books or other sources do you use?
Well, that's going somewhat off-topic, given that it's not a name-related question.. I'll post a reply to it over in 'The Lounge' board under "conversation continued from Name Facts Board id=49485"
Anyjow, I have conducted some further research and I must somewhat revise my earlier examination of this mid-eastern name, Isabel.
The Bä’äl venerated by the Philistines at their ancient city of Eqrọn was Zəvüv, that is to say in English, Baal-zebub/Beelzebub; this name is interchangeable with Beel-Zeboul(Zebül?). Now, it would seemed to have been a customary habit in ancient Yisraël to alter the names attributed to pagan deities worshiped by the surrounding peoples, substituting words which exhibited a resemblance in pronunciation though dishonorable in context.
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Google turns up דואר זבל with the meaning spam(? Since I do not know any Hebrew, I looked for word associations e.g. http://tinyurl.com/aw2k4. Sheepishly apologetic if I am wrong ... oh why do people draw me into conversations about things I know not). As spam is garbage, is this the same zevel? And is it the same Semitic root as the one that gives prince?
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I do not think it is the same root as prince but I could be mistaken. 'Zevel' would seem to denote wastage of any sort, used in the Modern Hebrew to describe compter spam (which is to say, digital disuse). דואר זבל(dọär zevel) means "spam-mail" in English.
[ see http://www.dictionary.co.il/h04/h0407029.gif ]
[ see http://www.dictionary.co.il/h04/h0407029.gif ]
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What does Adina (Donna) mean in Hebrew?
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In modern Hebrew "adin(a)" translates "gentle, delicate". In the bible (Esra 2,15) you will find the masculine name ADIN(A). This is usually translated "delight"; the two words are related though, so the translation given on this site (click on ADINA) may also be correct. There is also a connection to "Eden" and the feminine name EDNA.
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Jezebel and its Hebrew form Izevel are not in use. Izevel means "island of detritus". Athalia isn't use either, but Delilah is rare but used.
I always thought Isabel came from the Carthaginese names Ishbaal / Ezbel, meaning "the wife of Baal / the lord". To me it is very far from Elizabeth, which is also not so close of Elisheva, by the way.
~~ Claire ~~
My ! are Alia, Eidel, Enola, Israel, Dudel, Yuri, Lina, Lorelei, Leilani, Owen, Julian, Glorinda, Mirinda
My ? are Hillel, Meshullam, Johnny, Ginny, Cordelia, Fiammetta, Yocheved
My ~ are Tehila, Tilda, Hailey, Gillian, Huldah
My / are Aglaia and July
I always thought Isabel came from the Carthaginese names Ishbaal / Ezbel, meaning "the wife of Baal / the lord". To me it is very far from Elizabeth, which is also not so close of Elisheva, by the way.
~~ Claire ~~
My ! are Alia, Eidel, Enola, Israel, Dudel, Yuri, Lina, Lorelei, Leilani, Owen, Julian, Glorinda, Mirinda
My ? are Hillel, Meshullam, Johnny, Ginny, Cordelia, Fiammetta, Yocheved
My ~ are Tehila, Tilda, Hailey, Gillian, Huldah
My / are Aglaia and July
This message was edited 6/7/2005, 9:55 AM
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Another, perhaps not-so-scholarly take...
A Dictionary of First Names, by the Oxford Press, says Isabel is a form of Elizabeth coined by "... deletion of the first syllable and alteration of the final consonant sound to one that can normally end a word in Spanish."
Source: http://snipurl.com/ff78.
EDIT: Fixed italics.
Miranda
Proud adopter of 15 punctuation marks; see my profile for their names.
A Dictionary of First Names, by the Oxford Press, says Isabel is a form of Elizabeth coined by "... deletion of the first syllable and alteration of the final consonant sound to one that can normally end a word in Spanish."
Source: http://snipurl.com/ff78.
EDIT: Fixed italics.
Proud adopter of 15 punctuation marks; see my profile for their names.
This message was edited 6/7/2005, 11:51 AM
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I do not know any Hebrew, and I often do not read these threads, but I am happy I did read this one.
I remember from a long time back that I had read that Baalzebub was created by tauntingly changing zebul (Lord, the prince) to zebub (Lord of flies). So, I had guessed, zayin-bet-lamed must be the same word; and hence from Yarod/Jared's (hey why not simply ירד's ... Hmmm...which side do I put the 's?) post concluded that aleph-yod must be `where'.
Thanks for the interesting history.
Tanmoy
I remember from a long time back that I had read that Baalzebub was created by tauntingly changing zebul (Lord, the prince) to zebub (Lord of flies). So, I had guessed, zayin-bet-lamed must be the same word; and hence from Yarod/Jared's (hey why not simply ירד's ... Hmmm...which side do I put the 's?) post concluded that aleph-yod must be `where'.
Thanks for the interesting history.
Tanmoy
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