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Help[Opinions] Re: Names pronounced differently in the US and the UK
in reply to a message by molly
Bernard is one of the few times I prefer the U.S. (OK, really more like the French) way over the U.K. Maurice I could go either way. I didn't realize the "th" was pronounced like Antony in the U.K. I thought the two different spellings (Anthony, Antony) were pronounced distinctly by both sides of the Atlantic -- not to forget our Canadian friends.
Off the top of my head I'm coming up with more feminine examples than male. For instance:
Viola -- "VIE-uh-luh" U.K., "vie-O-luh" U.S.
Clementine -- "CLEM-en-teen" U.K., "CLEM-en-tine" U.S.
Ursula -- "U(r)-syoo-luh" U.K., "URS-uh-luh" U.S.
Eulalie -- "YOO-lah-lee" U.K., "yoo-LAY-lee" or "yoo-LAH-lee" U.S.
Adela -- "AD-uh-luh" U.K., "uh-DEL-uh" U.S.
Sophia -- "so-FIE-uh" U.K. (old style), "so-FEE-uh" U.S.
Maria -- "mah-RIE-uh" U.K. (old style), "mah-REE-uh" U.S.
Iphigenia -- "if-i-jeh-NIE-uh" U.K., "if-i-JEEN-ee-uh" U.S. (although I've heard other ways here in the U.S. too)
Irene -- "eye-REE-nee" U.K., "eye-REEN" U.S. (please advise if this is not so)
St.John -- "SIN-jun" U.K., "Saint John" U.S.
Ralph -- "rayf" U.K., "ralf" U.S. (but I could be wrong on this one, please advise)
Basil -- "BAZ-l" U.K., "BAYZ-l" U.S.
Cecil -- "SESS-l" U.K., "SEES-l" U.S.
Actually, if I've got any of these wrong please let me know. I was born and raised in the U.S., but my parents are from the U.K. and Ireland and we visited a lot. Plus we grew up watching everything the BBC ever produced. So I'm pretty sure of most of these. But I can never really be sure.
Off the top of my head I'm coming up with more feminine examples than male. For instance:
Viola -- "VIE-uh-luh" U.K., "vie-O-luh" U.S.
Clementine -- "CLEM-en-teen" U.K., "CLEM-en-tine" U.S.
Ursula -- "U(r)-syoo-luh" U.K., "URS-uh-luh" U.S.
Eulalie -- "YOO-lah-lee" U.K., "yoo-LAY-lee" or "yoo-LAH-lee" U.S.
Adela -- "AD-uh-luh" U.K., "uh-DEL-uh" U.S.
Sophia -- "so-FIE-uh" U.K. (old style), "so-FEE-uh" U.S.
Maria -- "mah-RIE-uh" U.K. (old style), "mah-REE-uh" U.S.
Iphigenia -- "if-i-jeh-NIE-uh" U.K., "if-i-JEEN-ee-uh" U.S. (although I've heard other ways here in the U.S. too)
Irene -- "eye-REE-nee" U.K., "eye-REEN" U.S. (please advise if this is not so)
St.John -- "SIN-jun" U.K., "Saint John" U.S.
Ralph -- "rayf" U.K., "ralf" U.S. (but I could be wrong on this one, please advise)
Basil -- "BAZ-l" U.K., "BAYZ-l" U.S.
Cecil -- "SESS-l" U.K., "SEES-l" U.S.
Actually, if I've got any of these wrong please let me know. I was born and raised in the U.S., but my parents are from the U.K. and Ireland and we visited a lot. Plus we grew up watching everything the BBC ever produced. So I'm pretty sure of most of these. But I can never really be sure.
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Ralph
I'm American, but so far the UK posters seem to be unaware that Ralph is pronounced "RAYF" in Gilbert & Sullivan's H.M.S. Pinafore (1878). Another example is English composer Ralph Vaughan Williams (his name is pronounced "RAYF"). I've always heard that "RAYF" is the traditional/older/posh English pronunciation.
ETA: I just thought of another example, Ralph Nickleby from Dickens' Nicholas Nickleby. His name is pronounced "RAYF" in the 1977 BBC television serial. However, it is pronounced "RALF" in the TV version of the play, The Life and Adventures of Nicholas Nickleby (1982).
I'm American, but so far the UK posters seem to be unaware that Ralph is pronounced "RAYF" in Gilbert & Sullivan's H.M.S. Pinafore (1878). Another example is English composer Ralph Vaughan Williams (his name is pronounced "RAYF"). I've always heard that "RAYF" is the traditional/older/posh English pronunciation.
ETA: I just thought of another example, Ralph Nickleby from Dickens' Nicholas Nickleby. His name is pronounced "RAYF" in the 1977 BBC television serial. However, it is pronounced "RALF" in the TV version of the play, The Life and Adventures of Nicholas Nickleby (1982).
This message was edited 10/17/2011, 6:39 PM
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Ralph started out as Rafe, but slowly the tide turned in the 19th century - Ralph Rackstraw was, of course, a patrician who got exchanged for a common infant as a baby, so part of the joke is that his name gives a big fat clue to his actual origins. Like Oliver Twist, speaking perfect English in spite of his erratic upbringing.
Basically, it's a spelling pronunciation. I blame universal literacy. So, though I wouldn't hesitate to accuse Ralph Fiennes of towering egoism, nor would I necessarily castigate the man for keeping an old tradition alive. (I knew a young Ralph once who must have been born in the 1990s or late 1980s: parents were a high-flying financier and a most pretentious teacher of English.)
Basically, it's a spelling pronunciation. I blame universal literacy. So, though I wouldn't hesitate to accuse Ralph Fiennes of towering egoism, nor would I necessarily castigate the man for keeping an old tradition alive. (I knew a young Ralph once who must have been born in the 1990s or late 1980s: parents were a high-flying financier and a most pretentious teacher of English.)
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Corrections
Clementine - "CLEM-en-tine" like the fruit
Eulalie - can't say, I've never actually heard anyone say it
Adela - "ah-DELL-uh"
Sophia - "so-FEE-uh" NOBODY pronounces it "so-FYE-uh"
Maria - "mah-REE-uh" nobody pronounces it "mah-RYE-uh", at least not anymore. Only Mariah is pronouced that way.
Iphigenia - "if-ih-JEN-ee-uh"
Irene - "EYE-reen"
Ralph - either way
Clementine - "CLEM-en-tine" like the fruit
Eulalie - can't say, I've never actually heard anyone say it
Adela - "ah-DELL-uh"
Sophia - "so-FEE-uh" NOBODY pronounces it "so-FYE-uh"
Maria - "mah-REE-uh" nobody pronounces it "mah-RYE-uh", at least not anymore. Only Mariah is pronouced that way.
Iphigenia - "if-ih-JEN-ee-uh"
Irene - "EYE-reen"
Ralph - either way
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***Clarifying Sophia and Mariah for everyone***
[Andromache, I'm sorry to hijack your response but this seems to be a reoccuring problem for everyone. No doubt this is my fault in not explaining it the first time well enough. My bad.]
Everyone, when I put "old style" next to Sophia and Maria I meant that that is the way those names used to be pronounced in the past. I know that today they are pronounced the same way as the U.S., or I should say as the Spanish and the Italians and others do. I just added the old pronunciations because I've always found them so beautiful and nostalgic sounding. I shouldn't have. It was too confusing. Sorry.
Andromache, thanks for the other responses. It's much appreciated. :-)
[Andromache, I'm sorry to hijack your response but this seems to be a reoccuring problem for everyone. No doubt this is my fault in not explaining it the first time well enough. My bad.]
Everyone, when I put "old style" next to Sophia and Maria I meant that that is the way those names used to be pronounced in the past. I know that today they are pronounced the same way as the U.S., or I should say as the Spanish and the Italians and others do. I just added the old pronunciations because I've always found them so beautiful and nostalgic sounding. I shouldn't have. It was too confusing. Sorry.
Andromache, thanks for the other responses. It's much appreciated. :-)
This message was edited 10/17/2011, 3:09 PM
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I don't know if those are all correct. I'm from the UK, and I say Viola, Clementine, Adele, Sophia, Maria and Irene the way you say is American.
I have definitely never heard Sophia or Maria pronounce with an "eye" sound in them, and I know a fair few Sophias and Marias. Mariah, like Mariah Carey, might be pronounced this way...
I have definitely never heard Sophia or Maria pronounce with an "eye" sound in them, and I know a fair few Sophias and Marias. Mariah, like Mariah Carey, might be pronounced this way...
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I've heard Clementine, Adela, and Cecil both ways in North America. Ursula is closer to Ur-syoo-luh -- or at least, that's what I use. Iphigenia is more like if-i-jeh-NEE-uh where I live (upper Washington State -- by the Canadian border).
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I live in the US (born and raised here as well) and I've only ever heard the name Basil pronounced as BAZ-il.
People pronounce the herb as BAY-zil, but the name is always BAZ-il.
Or, at least, that's been my experience.
People pronounce the herb as BAY-zil, but the name is always BAZ-il.
Or, at least, that's been my experience.
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I agree with this.
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Me too. I had a hedgehog once named Basil "BAY-zil" but that was because I named him after the herb- as far as I know the name is still pronounced BAZ-il / BAS-il here, but is thought of as a "British name".
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All the Sophias and Irenes I know (some of whom are quite elderly) are so-FEE-a and IGH-reen, all the Marias* are ma-REE-a, and Ralph is Ralph here, unless you are Ralph Fiennes and being a big show-off.
Can vouch for Ursula, Basil and Cecil, though.
*Except in the old name for a police van, which is called a 'Black Maria', pronounced ma-RIGH-a
Can vouch for Ursula, Basil and Cecil, though.
*Except in the old name for a police van, which is called a 'Black Maria', pronounced ma-RIGH-a
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Yup, it's just a personal thing of his, not a national thing of ours :)
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Yes, I was aware that the Sophia and Maria examples were outdated. That's why I put "old style" next to them. I'm just so lin love with those pronunciations that I couldn't resist including them. :-)
Good to know about the rest. Pronunciations must be in flux because I've heard Clementine, Ursula and Adela pronounced as indicated in my OP. Now that I think of it Adela Rogers St. John, an American journalist in the early part of the 20th century, pronounced her name "AD-uh-luh" too so it must be more of a historic difference than a geographic one.
Ralph is a puzzlement to me. I've asked ollyar for more information on it. Perhaps you can help. I'm pretty sure I heard that Ralph Fiennes pronounces his name "rayf." But I could have misheard that. In any event, would the name "rayf" be spelled Rafe in the U.K. as in the U.S? Anything you can do to clear this up would help.
Thanks!
Good to know about the rest. Pronunciations must be in flux because I've heard Clementine, Ursula and Adela pronounced as indicated in my OP. Now that I think of it Adela Rogers St. John, an American journalist in the early part of the 20th century, pronounced her name "AD-uh-luh" too so it must be more of a historic difference than a geographic one.
Ralph is a puzzlement to me. I've asked ollyar for more information on it. Perhaps you can help. I'm pretty sure I heard that Ralph Fiennes pronounces his name "rayf." But I could have misheard that. In any event, would the name "rayf" be spelled Rafe in the U.K. as in the U.S? Anything you can do to clear this up would help.
Thanks!
This message was edited 10/17/2011, 12:58 PM
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